Happy 2024

Happy 2024

So lets set a serious goal -> Xenforo.

I hope you all had an awesome Xmas.
And as always, all the very best wishes for you from the R-S staff team.

 

Tell you what bro you name 3 things that will actually "grow" a 20 year old website centred around a universally across the board ever-dying game genre and you can take control of it yourself

Every1 thinks they got an original idea smh

Ah the anti ambition attitude of the rune server 'veterans' never ceases to amaze me, 'it's shit so let's not give anyone else a try because I've already decided it can't improve because I lack the vision to do it'

 

'it's shit so let's not give anyone else a try because I've already decided it can't improve because I lack the vision to do it'

Thakiller never said anything about "not giving anyone else a try", so I'm not sure what post you were even reading lol.

I'm fairly convinced you either misread Thakiller's post or just read what you wanted to read - nobody would in good faith interpret him asking for tangible suggestions as being "anti-ambition".

The "anti ambition attitude" is primarily on display by people who just negatively rant (such as the one Thakiller replied to) and propose no solutions/improvements.

If he has the "vision to do it" that you speak about, surely he would highlight improvements rather than just ranting?

 

Ah the anti ambition attitude of the rune server 'veterans' never ceases to amaze me, 'it's shit so let's not give anyone else a try because I've already decided it can't improve because I lack the vision to do it'

I’m not anti ambition, I’m anti shit idea. “Give up control of the site” … to whom? Who chooses the replacement? Based on what? What are they gonna do different? Whats going to grow r-s? His post doesn’t have a single suggestion. We just slap this fantastical idea down on the table with no further substance and expect people to rally around in support? You can’t even take these people seriously lmao.

 

I’m not anti ambition, I’m anti shit idea. “Give up control of the site” … to whom? Who chooses the replacement? Based on what? What are they gonna do different? Whats going to grow r-s? His post doesn’t have a single suggestion. We just slap this fantastical idea down on the table with no further substance and expect people to rally around in support? You can’t even take these people seriously lmao.

I think part of it is these people are inspired by Luke's post on the last announcement where he decried the dying of the website because of some bad decisions made regarding the domain name amongst other things.

While the domain change didn't help things for years, the fact of the matter is the RSPS scene is not how it once was. I think everyone wishes we were still in the golden age of RSPS development but we just aren't. The people we all were are gone. We can't be those bored teenagers ever again. Everyone has gotten older, have careers, families, and other things going on. Plus we reached a peak of RSPS development were innovations really stopped. There wasn't any new challenges like figuring out new engine protocols (Anyone remember when the first 474 came out? Tutorial island lol), and the internet quite frankly has changed too. It's now too micro-transaction focused along with other issues I'm not crazy about.

The RSPS scene is on a slow decline, and all anyone can do right now is sit back and enjoy it while you can. Learn what you can, hopefully it inspires you to get into programming of other things like it did so many of us. For anyone new, spend some time learning about the history of RSPS development, and if you're feeling really adventurous learn some of the drama that came with it all, especially on this website. This site still has so many of the good old threads. There was so much drama and to be honest with everyone, even though I've been out of active RSPS development for many years now I will still occasionally remember a random piece of history/drama and laugh out loud about it.

 

Thakiller never said anything about "not giving anyone else a try", so I'm not sure what post you were even reading lol.

I'm fairly convinced you either misread Thakiller's post or just read what you wanted to read - nobody would in good faith interpret him asking for tangible suggestions as being "anti-ambition".

The "anti ambition attitude" is primarily on display by people who just negatively rant (such as the one Thakiller replied to) and propose no solutions/improvements.

If he has the "vision to do it" that you speak about, surely he would highlight improvements rather than just ranting?

It's called reading between the lines. Not sure why you seem to subscribe to such a literalist philosophy whereby everyone has to say exactly what they mean, when you can clearly infer things, as everyone else who clearly agrees with me has seen so. I've seen cjay highlight many improvements but it falls on deaf ears time and time again, I'm not sure why even he even bothers anymore. Most of us have just given up because it's a lost cause arguing with the rune server equivalent of real world boomers that think they know everything but won't give way to real change.

I’m not anti ambition, I’m anti shit idea. “Give up control of the site” … to whom? Who chooses the replacement? Based on what? What are they gonna do different? Whats going to grow r-s? His post doesn’t have a single suggestion. We just slap this fantastical idea down on the table with no further substance and expect people to rally around in support? You can’t even take these people seriously lmao.

What exactly are you suggesting he does, make a business proposal that you people will sincerely listen to? You have shown how dismissive you are, you'd just say tldr and go back to your welding.

I think part of it is these people are inspired by Luke's post on the last announcement where he decried the dying of the website because of some bad decisions made regarding the domain name amongst other things.

While the domain change didn't help things for years, the fact of the matter is the RSPS scene is not how it once was. I think everyone wishes we were still in the golden age of RSPS development but we just aren't. The people we all were are gone. We can't be those bored teenagers ever again. Everyone has gotten older, have careers, families, and other things going on. Plus we reached a peak of RSPS development were innovations really stopped. There wasn't any new challenges like figuring out new engine protocols (Anyone remember when the first 474 came out? Tutorial island lol), and the internet quite frankly has changed too. It's now too micro-transaction focused along with other issues I'm not crazy about.

The RSPS scene is on a slow decline, and all anyone can do right now is sit back and enjoy it while you can. Learn what you can, hopefully it inspires you to get into programming of other things like it did so many of us. For anyone new, spend some time learning about the history of RSPS development, and if you're feeling really adventurous learn some of the drama that came with it all, especially on this website. This site still has so many of the good old threads. There was so much drama and to be honest with everyone, even though I've been out of active RSPS development for many years now I will still occasionally remember a random piece of history/drama and laugh out loud about it.

I haven't even seen the thread by Luke, it's easy to sit and say it's dying so let's not bother when you could at least try and do something else, but everyone here has the attitude that you should just give up rather than even try anything!

 

It's called reading between the lines. Not sure why you seem to subscribe to such a literalist philosophy whereby everyone has to say exactly what they mean, when you can clearly infer things, as everyone else who clearly agrees with me has seen so.

Thakiller's post was pretty clearly cut and you've intentionally misintepreted it to be anti-ambition to fit your narrative. He asked Cjay to stop bloviating and provide tangible improvements, not spew random nonsense about throwing leadership to somebody else with no indication as to what that would change or achieve.

I've seen cjay highlight many improvements but it falls on deaf ears time and time again, I'm not sure why even he even bothers anymore.

Have you really? Where is that then, because I don't see it? If he's done it time and time again surely you can point me to these instances? I am eager to hear these suggestions that are so game changing that they require a different website owner.

Most of us have just given up because it's a lost cause arguing with the rune server equivalent of real world boomers that think they know everything but won't give way to real change.

Here you guys go again with "won't give way to real change". What change are you proposing? So far the only thing of substance that you've supported of Cjay's is that you want a different owner, how is that real change and what is that going to achieve that can't be done until Kevy randomly gives someone else owner lol?

What exactly are you suggesting he does, make a business proposal that you people will sincerely listen to?

Could start by proposing a positive change that you'd like to see instead of repeating doomer narrative on the annual new years' announcement thread lmao. We're all bored of listening to you guys complain and either do nothing to change or suggest nothing for others to change.

it's easy to sit and say it's dying so let's not bother when you could at least try and do something else, but everyone here has the attitude that you should just give up rather than even try anything!

Again the only thing anyone here has proposed to "try" is change who owns the site. Yet to hear what that will achieve...

 

Thakiller's post was pretty clearly cut and you've intentionally misintepreted it to be anti-ambition to fit your narrative. He asked Cjay to stop bloviating and provide tangible improvements, not spew random nonsense about throwing leadership to somebody else with no indication as to what that would change or achieve.




Have you really? Where is that then, because I don't see it? If he's done it time and time again surely you can point me to these instances? I am eager to hear these suggestions that are so game changing that they require a different website owner.




Here you guys go again with "won't give way to real change". What change are you proposing? So far the only thing of substance that you've supported of Cjay's is that you want a different owner, how is that real change and what is that going to achieve that can't be done until Kevy randomly gives someone else owner lol?




Could start by proposing a positive change that you'd like to see instead of repeating doomer narrative on the annual new years' announcement thread lmao. We're all bored of listening to you guys complain and either do nothing to change or suggest nothing for others to change.




Again the only thing anyone here has proposed to "try" is change who owns the site. Yet to hear what that will achieve...

I think it's unfair to say that's the only suggestion, and even if it were he makes the case for it (polemically yes, but still makes it) by saying we could do with a more active owner, I know that we've had our differences (to put it mildly) but I can at least respect that you are an important, active part of this website, is it really too much to expect the same commitment from the owner of it? It feels very insular to be honest, there's a community of hardened veterans like yourself, and you're not stupid, no, clearly not, but you seem so fundamentally to think that you all know everything that you don't listen to anyone who's not in the cliche, even posting a thread asking for suggestions would be a good first move. But will it be done? I don't expect so!

 

I think it's unfair to say that's the only suggestion,

Uh.. why? It's the only suggestion on this thread. You just told me that Cjay has highlighted many improvements, where are these then? Can you link me some? Surely they should be on hand if there are so many? Eager to read them.

and even if it were he makes the case for it (polemically yes, but still makes it) by saying we could do with a more active owner,

To do what exactly? What do you want him to do with this activity? Just be replying to threads or?

is it really too much to expect the same commitment from the owner of it?

I'm not convinced that Kevy suddenly becoming active is going to solve all the problems you doomers keep inventing.

you seem so fundamentally to think that you all know everything that you don't listen to anyone who's not in the cliche

I listen to everyone, I've replied to this thread and I've asked for these suggestions. Still waiting though...

even posting a thread asking for suggestions would be a good first move. But will it be done? I don't expect so!

I'll do you one better, I've got an entire section where you can post as many suggestions as you like!

Alas, I see none from Cjay. Can you point me to the many improvements you said Cjay had highlighted "time and time again"? Am I looking in the wrong section?

 

Uh.. why? It's the only suggestion on this thread. You just told me that Cjay has highlighted many improvements, where are these then? Can you link me some? Surely they should be on hand if there are so many? Eager to read them.




To do what exactly? What do you want him to do with this activity? Just be replying to threads or?




I'm not convinced that Kevy suddenly becoming active is going to solve all the problems you doomers keep inventing.




I listen to everyone, I've replied to this thread and I've asked for these suggestions. Still waiting though...




I'll do you one better, I've got an entire section where you can post as many suggestions as you like!

Alas, I see none from Cjay. Can you point me to the many improvements you said Cjay had highlighted "time and time again"? Am I looking in the wrong section?

I forgot that section even existed to be honest, fair enough that's on me, but a thread from yourself or Kevy directly asking for suggestions would be more inviting and useful, if only to finalise any suggestions, I don't have cjays suggestions on hand, believe it or not I really don't compile random lists of good suggestions about here, when I was more active here though I could have told you loads from people like cjay, corey, kris, spooky, that just fell on completely deaf ears, this site has remained fundamentally static for too long, some kind of change should at least be attempted rather than nursing a dying horse and just saying it's fine it's just old age, at least try and cure the symptoms rather than let it to rot, introduce new forum themes, condense it because currently there's way too many sections, change some of the ranks up, advertise more aggressively on social media, have an easy to use server that new people can just download and run which attracts the noobs because that's where we all start, thats just like five off the top of my head of varying quality, but at least it's something rather than nothing, nothing will come of nothing

 

It's called reading between the lines. Not sure why you seem to subscribe to such a literalist philosophy whereby everyone has to say exactly what they mean, when you can clearly infer things

Lmao what are you even talking about? There’s nothing to read between or interpret about what I said, it’s plain as day a thoughtless reactionary suggestion with no practical ideas of putting it into motion, one that’s been parroted since the <2010s.

What exactly are you suggesting he does, make a business proposal that you people will sincerely listen to? You have shown how dismissive you are, you'd just say tldr and go back to your welding.

Surely *anything* other than literally nothing??? am I supposed to feel bad for dismissing these shit ideas that are summarily “kick kevy out !!” but without asking “..then what?” Is that really such a preposterous question?

 

I forgot that section even existed to be honest, fair enough that's on me, but a thread from yourself or Kevy directly asking for suggestions would be more inviting and useful, if only to finalise any suggestions

The section has been there since the website started and most people are confident enough in proposing their suggestions. When the suggestions are meaningful I will engage in discussion as to whether I think they're good or bad, for example _jordan's most recent suggestion thread has a good amount of back-and-forth discussion from myself and others.

I don't have cjays suggestions on hand, believe it or not I really don't compile random lists of good suggestions about here

That's mighty convenient given a few hours ago you reminisced about seeing his suggestions fall on deaf ears "time and time again"! It's a shame I had to go looking in the suggestions section and can't find a single one...

when I was more active here though I could have told you loads from people like cjay, corey, kris, spooky, that just fell on completely deaf ears

Any examples? Or are you going to conveniently not remember any of these either?

this site has remained fundamentally static for too long, some kind of change should at least be attempted rather than nursing a dying horse and just saying it's fine it's just old age, at least try and cure the symptoms rather than let it to rot

Reading between the lines here; this entire sentence is just more complaining and nothing of substance.

introduce new forum themes,

This is truly the game changer that we need to replace Kevy to achieve?

As a matter of fact Kevy is working on moving the entire forum software to something more modern, so 'new themes' will come out-of-the-box when that migration is done. It's even outlined in the main post of the thread we're chatting on.

condense it because currently there's way too many sections

Finally we are getting so something of substance. Ironically, other members are proposing more sections, not fewer.

Do you have a list of which one's you would like us to condense/merge together?

change some of the ranks up

This is a nebulous statement and suggestions like this are meaningless. Outline what you want changing and why, otherwise you might as well propose I run a random number generator to assign the next batch of contributors/RMs/veterans etc.

have an easy to use server that new people can just download and run which attracts the noobs because that's where we all start

We have plenty of off-the-shelf servers. This isn't even anything to do with the ownership/staff team. The staff aren't here to program, they're here to moderate and provide a safe+reliable community for developers. This has resulted in fostering the development of the thousands of servers that already exist.

thats just like five off the top of my head of varying quality, but at least it's something rather than nothing, nothing will come of nothing

Out of everything you've stated, the only tangible suggestion is to merge a bunch of sections together. This is actually something I've done many times over the years. If you can outline which ones you want condensed, it's likely that it will happen.

I find it very surprising that all of this doomer rhetoric has boiled down to a single suggestion of "merge a bunch of dead sections". Not really the game changer I was expecting and doesn't really have anything to do with 'active leadership' from Kevy.

 

.

Yes the section has been around forever but it would still be useful for yourself or Kevy to make a personal thread, it is more inviting and suggestive, and many of us have forgot that section even exists or perhaps don't think it would be read, you will contest that but what's believed and what's true I think you'd agree are two different things.

If it's made I'll outline some of the suggestions here and others properly, with more detail and time to dedicate to it, for example I completely understand your point about moderation being less about development but I've discussed with many people here about how recent developments in programming such as gradle and the almost mandatory use of ides has effectively pushed noobs out of the scene, which might seem like a good thing but noobs eventually get better, but if they never start because the barrier to entry is too high they never will become active members, now I'm not suggesting that people should stop using it (that'd be idiotic) but you can often include something like a run.bat at least

Also the 'read between the lines' remark was very good, I laughed

 

perhaps don't think it would be read, you will contest that but what's believed and what's true I think you'd agree are two different things.

That's an odd perception because the suggestions that have anything of substance have staff members in the replies discussing whether's its a good or bad idea.

Perhaps when the xen migration is done we'll invite users to suggest improvements for both the new forum software/the website as a whole.

In fact we actually have a group of invite-only members actively testing the new forum software and proposing fixes/changes. Some of them are in this thread.

If it's made I'll outline some of the suggestions here and others properly, with more detail and time to dedicate to it

There's nothing stopping you from doing this in your own suggestion thread in the existing section, as _jordan and others have done where the staff team will engage on the subject.

To predicate your suggestions that you seem eager to propose on whether me or Kevy personally invite you to share them is odd.

It would certainly be more well received than just complainining about Kevy.

for example I completely understand your point about moderation being less about development but I've discussed with many people here about how recent developments in programming such as gradle and the almost mandatory use of ides has effectively pushed noobs out of the scene, which might seem like a good thing but noobs eventually get better, but if they never start because the barrier to entry is too high they never will become active members, now I'm not suggesting that people should stop using it (that'd be idiotic) but you can often include something like a run.bat at least

That sounds like something the contributor rank was created to help solve. One of our changes a couple of years ago (which would fit into your 'change the ranks up' suggestion) was the introduction of a contributor rank to encourage members to write topics to help community members, such as helping them set up IDEs and build environments.

Again, this does not really boil down to the staff team's responsibility - we have actively made a change to encourage this type of content to be authored. It's up to the community itself to actually author it. The staff team have other things to do to ensure that the website remains safe for that sort of content to be produced (there are lots of users and lots of problems arise that they must attend to) - so it's unlikely I would ever require them to start authoring it themselves.

A good example of what the contributor rank is trying to encourage is a user like [user]clem585[/user]. They may not be authoring guides as you've suggested, but clem's actively replying to various help threads and trying to help the people you've identified with their servers, to break down that barrier-to-entry you outlined.

I would encourage you, and others that share the sentiment that you've outlined, to be the change you wish to see and take people such as those with our contributor rank as inspiration - go out there and help people, or write the guides you think we're missing.

 

happy new year

 

looking forward to xf

 

I haven't even seen the thread by Luke, it's easy to sit and say it's dying so let's not bother when you could at least try and do something else, but everyone here has the attitude that you should just give up rather than even try anything!

It was a reply to the last announcement.

Try to do what exactly? Revive a dying community? My time in the scene has long since passed.

I don't think you fully comprehend how the internet culture, or really society as a whole operates. There is nothing to try. There once was dozens of websites dedicated to private server development, with their own very active forums, and one by one they died off. This is the only one left with any measure of activity. And it's partially because the internet has changed completely from when private servers first started and gained popularity. It's a different time. The interest in private server development just isn't as popular as it once was. Once Old School came along and really started diverging into its own thing honestly marked the beginning of the end. I'm not saying private servers are dead, they obviously still have players and what not, but it is not as popular as it once was nor will it ever be again. It's hard letting things go, I miss the old times too, but there is absolutely nothing that will revive the private server scene. I mean, even traditional internet forums are dying off too. The younger generation is into different things, and that's okay. Times change, preferred means of communication changes, interests change etc.

Also, you're not even really presenting solutions to anything either. Simply handling the forum away isn't going to accomplish anything, and at least Kevin continues to keep the site up and hasn't really made it as bad as he could have. I don't know if you were around for the decline of Moparscape when that got sold but it was terrible. Reading your suggestions to Scu, I don't think you really thought this through or understand what exactly the scope of an Administrator is. You are always free to attempt to make a better private server community as well.

There are lots of easy to use bases out there that are actually well programmed. The interest is just not there. And I mean, for good reason. Go look at the top list. All the servers are pretty much the exact same thing with varying levels of customizations. That's what players want apparently. And as I said, the innovation is gone. The excitement of new revisions, porting features, writing new and exciting stuff is just not here anymore.

 

It was a reply to the last announcement.

Try to do what exactly? Revive a dying community? My time in the scene has long since passed.

I don't think you fully comprehend how the internet culture, or really society as a whole operates. There is nothing to try. There once was dozens of websites dedicated to private server development, with their own very active forums, and one by one they died off. This is the only one left with any measure of activity. And it's partially because the internet has changed completely from when private servers first started and gained popularity. It's a different time. The interest in private server development just isn't as popular as it once was. Once Old School came along and really started diverging into its own thing honestly marked the beginning of the end. I'm not saying private servers are dead, they obviously still have players and what not, but it is not as popular as it once was nor will it ever be again. It's hard letting things go, I miss the old times too, but there is absolutely nothing that will revive the private server scene. I mean, even traditional internet forums are dying off too. The younger generation is into different things, and that's okay. Times change, preferred means of communication changes, interests change etc.

Also, you're not even really presenting solutions to anything either. Simply handling the forum away isn't going to accomplish anything, and at least Kevin continues to keep the site up and hasn't really made it as bad as he could have. I don't know if you were around for the decline of Moparscape when that got sold but it was terrible. Reading your suggestions to Scu, I don't think you really thought this through or understand what exactly the scope of an Administrator is. You are always free to attempt to make a better private server community as well.

There are lots of easy to use bases out there that are actually well programmed. The interest is just not there. And I mean, for good reason. Go look at the top list. All the servers are pretty much the exact same thing with varying levels of customizations. That's what players want apparently. And as I said, the innovation is gone. The excitement of new revisions, porting features, writing new and exciting stuff is just not here anymore.

Oh please enlighten me, wise sage of rune server :lol:

I understand very well, we used to use platforms like msn chat way before discord, and plenty of forums I'm a member of have thousands of active contributors still, granted they are all run by people actively interested in making it a good space to be in rather than just ignoring all the issues and saying it's dead because it's clearly the easier thing to do.

 

but noobs eventually get better

Hey! That's me!

 

Oh please enlighten me, wise sage of rune server :lol:

I understand very well, we used to use platforms like msn chat way before discord, and plenty of forums I'm a member of have thousands of active contributors still, granted they are all run by people actively interested in making it a good space to be in rather than just ignoring all the issues and saying it's dead because it's clearly the easier thing to do.

And there you go. You've once again sort of glossed over any points you dislike, and have become somewhat passive aggressive. I'm losing interest in communicating with you. I stand by my points, I do not think you understand how internet culture or society as a whole operates.

MSN is a good example, yes. So are IRC chatrooms (which still have some users, but nothing like they used to be), Usenet for discussions (almost completely gone but still limping) and so on and so forth. Times change, communication changes. I much prefer forums but most young people don't seem to, it seems Discord is the popular thing at this moment. There's even servers out now that forgo forums altogether and use Discord.

Forums as a whole are dying off, yes. There are still active ones, such as this one and there's a few tradework ones I go to, but as I said, they are nothing like how they used to be, especially in the private server community. You have yet to present any solutions to the problem you feel we have. I'm starting to think you cannot accept that private servers are on a decline. So please, tell everyone here in a coherent way what do you think are the solutions to the problem. You say giving up the forum, which is just dumb. You went on about a 'run.bat' server structure, that is something you can do so why don't you do it? I don't understand what your points or objectives are. Are you hoping to get this forum so you can make some money?

The interest in Runescape Private Servers has waned over the past decade or so because of official options like Old School, a lack of innovation in Private Server Development, becoming more of a money focused venture, etc. I have had countless arguments with people similar to you on different topics, such as not understanding why nobody uses Apollo and instead uses PI, and stuff like that. Nobody here is going to change your mind, but you are coming off as someone who cannot accept something they like isn't as popular as it was.

 

Still waiting for the next steps to making r-s great again after ousting kevy ?? We continue to skirt around this key element lmao